Comments on: Hmmmm Moroccan honey http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/ Thu, 04 Dec 2008 02:25:22 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: Seneferu http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317609 Seneferu Thu, 08 Feb 2007 15:12:17 +0000 http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317609 The point is SP, it's a matter of tastes and conditioning. The average Egyptian will be put off by most of the foods of the countries you mentioned, and will consider the rest to be unreal, as in sissy or unsatisfactory, meals. The point is SP, it’s a matter of tastes and conditioning. The average Egyptian will be put off by most of the foods of the countries you mentioned, and will consider the rest to be unreal, as in sissy or unsatisfactory, meals.

]]> By: rania http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317569 rania Thu, 08 Feb 2007 09:05:56 +0000 http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317569 This is becoming quite the culinary drop in..... Get you! I have never tried kadoora in alex. This ain't right, khawagas beating us at our own gluttonous game. You don't mean what you typed above, read it again :P This is becoming quite the culinary drop in…..

Get you! I have never tried kadoora in alex. This ain’t right, khawagas beating us at our own gluttonous game.

You don’t mean what you typed above, read it again :P

]]> By: SP http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317431 SP Wed, 07 Feb 2007 07:41:36 +0000 http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317431 Aubergine is lousy. Shaabi is way better in Cairo. I'll have to try the fiteer place you mentioned. Is the Kadoura in Cairo as good as the one in Alex? "Most" of the world includes France, Italy, China, India, Pakistan, Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, Mexico, Lebanon...all have great cuisines...sorry Rania :p Aubergine is lousy. Shaabi is way better in Cairo. I’ll have to try the fiteer place you mentioned. Is the Kadoura in Cairo as good as the one in Alex?

“Most” of the world includes France, Italy, China, India, Pakistan, Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, Mexico, Lebanon…all have great cuisines…sorry Rania :p

]]> By: rania http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317407 rania Tue, 06 Feb 2007 22:15:06 +0000 http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317407 there was me thinking you eat at fluffy places like 'aubergine'. Well, I'm glad we at least agree on something i classify 'most' as being 75% so keep going- just don't include french, lebanese, syrian or indian :) there was me thinking you eat at fluffy places like ‘aubergine’. Well, I’m glad we at least agree on something

i classify ‘most’ as being 75% so keep going- just don’t include french, lebanese, syrian or indian :)

]]> By: SP http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317227 SP Tue, 06 Feb 2007 04:48:27 +0000 http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317227 Rania - agree with you on all those places (except for Abu Ramy, which I haven't tried). The best mahshi I've had was made by the amazing mother of one of our very talented journalists (hmm...maybe we need to swap recipes). Best stuffed hamam was in the special pigeon place in Khan el-Khalili. I'd have to see what this "most" you're referring to is, when you say Egyptian food is better than "most," though ;) German? Polish? Rania - agree with you on all those places (except for Abu Ramy, which I haven’t tried). The best mahshi I’ve had was made by the amazing mother of one of our very talented journalists (hmm…maybe we need to swap recipes). Best stuffed hamam was in the special pigeon place in Khan el-Khalili.

I’d have to see what this “most” you’re referring to is, when you say Egyptian food is better than “most,” though ;) German? Polish?

]]> By: rania http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317171 rania Mon, 05 Feb 2007 19:57:56 +0000 http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317171 come on, comparing egyptian food to lebanese cuisine is a bit unfair. Any food compared to lebanese cuisine is going to come out looking bad. My point was that egyptian food is better than most taste wise and nutrition wise. the best place to eat egyptian food is at someone's home. All 'egyptian' food like mahashi etc is not restaurant fare. So to alleviate this collective scepticism, seneferu has agreed to have you round his/her place. thanks seneferu! That aside, some good eats: abu sid- zamalek/ mohandeseen- the closest you can get in a restaurant to decent mamma cooked food. kadoora, gam3et el dawal- fish el gahsh, el madbah abu sha'ra, gam'et el dawal- decent kebab koshari el tahrir, tal3aat harb for the best koshari tab3i, gam3et el dowal abu ramy el madbah- decent kebabs none taken issandr :) come on, comparing egyptian food to lebanese cuisine is a bit unfair. Any food compared to lebanese cuisine is going to come out looking bad. My point was that egyptian food is better than most taste wise and nutrition wise.

the best place to eat egyptian food is at someone’s home. All ‘egyptian’ food like mahashi etc is not restaurant fare. So to alleviate this collective scepticism, seneferu has agreed to have you round his/her place. thanks seneferu!

That aside, some good eats:
abu sid- zamalek/ mohandeseen- the closest you can get in a restaurant to decent mamma cooked food.
kadoora, gam3et el dawal- fish
el gahsh, el madbah
abu sha’ra, gam’et el dawal- decent kebab
koshari el tahrir, tal3aat harb for the best koshari
tab3i, gam3et el dowal
abu ramy el madbah- decent kebabs

none taken issandr :)

]]> By: issandr http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317156 issandr Mon, 05 Feb 2007 16:31:33 +0000 http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317156 Sorry to the Egyptians out there, and maybe it has nothing to do with the Ottomans, but even in households eating Mama's food I find Egyptian food generally disappointing. Now, I love fuul, I eat it several times a week in the morning from carts, at Tarek Mahrous in Garden City, at Gad, at Gahsh, and elsewhere. Mohammed Ahmed in Alex is a pilgrimage site for me. I like koshari, which even many Egyptians I know think is an awful dish. But my prejudice against Egyptian food more generally, and the tagens especially, is not so much a khawaga one as a non-Egyptian Arab one: the Lebanese, Syrians, Moroccans, Tunisians, Algerians, etc. I've met all think Egyptian food is almost inedible. Seriously. And SP's point is true: how come the country with probably the most fertile land in the world, with the possibility to grow virtually anything, has a range of ingredients that seems so limited? Anyway, sorry to the Egyptians I've offended - but I'm not the only one who feels this way. Sorry to the Egyptians out there, and maybe it has nothing to do with the Ottomans, but even in households eating Mama’s food I find Egyptian food generally disappointing. Now, I love fuul, I eat it several times a week in the morning from carts, at Tarek Mahrous in Garden City, at Gad, at Gahsh, and elsewhere. Mohammed Ahmed in Alex is a pilgrimage site for me. I like koshari, which even many Egyptians I know think is an awful dish.

But my prejudice against Egyptian food more generally, and the tagens especially, is not so much a khawaga one as a non-Egyptian Arab one: the Lebanese, Syrians, Moroccans, Tunisians, Algerians, etc. I’ve met all think Egyptian food is almost inedible. Seriously. And SP’s point is true: how come the country with probably the most fertile land in the world, with the possibility to grow virtually anything, has a range of ingredients that seems so limited?

Anyway, sorry to the Egyptians I’ve offended - but I’m not the only one who feels this way.

]]> By: Seneferu http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317119 Seneferu Mon, 05 Feb 2007 12:19:55 +0000 http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317119 La I'm only joking with you, no yelling involved. La I’m only joking with you, no yelling involved.

]]> By: SP http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317108 SP Mon, 05 Feb 2007 10:06:27 +0000 http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317108 Ya 'amm....Lebanon and Morocco did not colonise Egypt...but they have better food. It's not a question of high versus low cuisine, and for what it's worth, I think the Turks did a lousy job of colonising anyway, in the culinary realm above all (witness the fact that shaabi food is better than elite food). The point I was making is that it's a shame that Egyptian "high cuisine" is so bland, and tediousness of tasks notwithstanding, it's a surprise that with access to every possible kind of vegetable and spice, Egyptian food isn't as varied and complex as the other good cuisines in the region. It was Issandr who was complaining about insufficient Ottomanisation of Egyptian food, so you can go yell at him now. Ya ‘amm….Lebanon and Morocco did not colonise Egypt…but they have better food. It’s not a question of high versus low cuisine, and for what it’s worth, I think the Turks did a lousy job of colonising anyway, in the culinary realm above all (witness the fact that shaabi food is better than elite food). The point I was making is that it’s a shame that Egyptian “high cuisine” is so bland, and tediousness of tasks notwithstanding, it’s a surprise that with access to every possible kind of vegetable and spice, Egyptian food isn’t as varied and complex as the other good cuisines in the region. It was Issandr who was complaining about insufficient Ottomanisation of Egyptian food, so you can go yell at him now.

]]> By: Seneferu http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317057 Seneferu Sun, 04 Feb 2007 23:46:42 +0000 http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317057 My God, Sp...I don't mean to yank your chain (well Rania already answered you so I am yanking it a little:) but don't you find what you are saying about the lack of real Egyptian quisine vis-a-vis its colonisers to be the least bit offensive? Khod yabni el ol2aas massalan. If your definition of high quisine is by the tediousness of the culinary tasks invloved...there's a long process involved in making that one. And what is high and what is low anyway? What you buy in Istanbul as neatly packed "Turkish delights" are more of a shaabi Egyptian sweet in Cairo (and btw, they are not necessarily Turkish given their name). Maybe if we colonized Turkey you would be raving about the servings in Turkey's finest hotels of our delicious Egyptian kishk. Right?:D Ok sorry for yanking your chain. My God, Sp…I don’t mean to yank your chain (well Rania already answered you so I am yanking it a little:) but don’t you find what you are saying about the lack of real Egyptian quisine vis-a-vis its colonisers to be the least bit offensive?

Khod yabni el ol2aas massalan. If your definition of high quisine is by the tediousness of the culinary tasks invloved…there’s a long process involved in making that one.

And what is high and what is low anyway? What you buy in Istanbul as neatly packed “Turkish delights” are more of a shaabi Egyptian sweet in Cairo (and btw, they are not necessarily Turkish given their name). Maybe if we colonized Turkey you would be raving about the servings in Turkey’s finest hotels of our delicious Egyptian kishk. Right?:D

Ok sorry for yanking your chain.

]]> By: SP http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317045 SP Sun, 04 Feb 2007 17:23:03 +0000 http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317045 Rania, with all due respect - I adore good Egyptian foul (Tarek Mahrous!) and kebda iskandrani (Gad!) and firakh mashwi and fiteer and Alexandrian fish (Samakmak!), but in terms of variety and overall quality, Egyptian food simply can't compare to the good Lebanese stuff, and Moroccan is just miles ahead. Sorry. I love Egypt and everything about it, and I've had a few good home-cooked meals, but it's not enough to put Egyptian in the same league as Moroccan. Y'all need to put garlic and lemon in everything the way you do with the fish. If you have suggestions for restaurants that could change the collective sceptical mind, please let us know! Rania, with all due respect - I adore good Egyptian foul (Tarek Mahrous!) and kebda iskandrani (Gad!) and firakh mashwi and fiteer and Alexandrian fish (Samakmak!), but in terms of variety and overall quality, Egyptian food simply can’t compare to the good Lebanese stuff, and Moroccan is just miles ahead. Sorry. I love Egypt and everything about it, and I’ve had a few good home-cooked meals, but it’s not enough to put Egyptian in the same league as Moroccan. Y’all need to put garlic and lemon in everything the way you do with the fish.

If you have suggestions for restaurants that could change the collective sceptical mind, please let us know!

]]> By: rania http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317042 rania Sun, 04 Feb 2007 16:43:07 +0000 http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317042 eh-ahem- more skewed reporting... i turned a blind eye initially but things have gotten out of hand.... The fact that you people don't appreciate today's 'egyptian cuisine' is probably because you're foreign and so haven't had a good home cooked meal by mamma or you don't know the right places to eat out. puhlease. Egyptian fiteer is by far the most superior. One place. El dawa, share3 lebnan, mohandeseen. eat and weep at how tasteless your gheifs are! (taxi not car as it's right next to habib Ib. el adly's pad, i think - whoever, there's no parking) True egyptian cuisine might only consist of the delectable fool and molokhia, but the mixed bag that egyptian cuisine is today is delicious.. from mahshi everything to fiteer- you just have to know where to eat! eh-ahem- more skewed reporting… i turned a blind eye initially but things have gotten out of hand….

The fact that you people don’t appreciate today’s ‘egyptian cuisine’ is probably because you’re foreign and so haven’t had a good home cooked meal by mamma or you don’t know the right places to eat out.

puhlease. Egyptian fiteer is by far the most superior. One place. El dawa, share3 lebnan, mohandeseen. eat and weep at how tasteless your gheifs are! (taxi not car as it’s right next to habib Ib. el adly’s pad, i think - whoever, there’s no parking)

True egyptian cuisine might only consist of the delectable fool and molokhia, but the mixed bag that egyptian cuisine is today is delicious.. from mahshi everything to fiteer- you just have to know where to eat!

]]> By: SP http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317022 SP Sun, 04 Feb 2007 10:39:51 +0000 http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317022 Ah, theorising about the Lack of a Real Egyptian Cuisine...my favourite pastime. There's something to be said for the lack of court culture, but interestingly, shaabi food tends to be much better than elite food, and more spicy. It's like the Egyptians only learned the blandest stuff from their colonisers, like sharkasiyya and that awful firakh bane. Perhaps it's because Md Ali & Co were wimpy Albanians with bland Balkan tastes, and not proper Turks, or insufficiently Turkicised?? Ah, theorising about the Lack of a Real Egyptian Cuisine…my favourite pastime. There’s something to be said for the lack of court culture, but interestingly, shaabi food tends to be much better than elite food, and more spicy. It’s like the Egyptians only learned the blandest stuff from their colonisers, like sharkasiyya and that awful firakh bane. Perhaps it’s because Md Ali & Co were wimpy Albanians with bland Balkan tastes, and not proper Turks, or insufficiently Turkicised??

]]> By: Issandr El Amrani http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317020 Issandr El Amrani Sun, 04 Feb 2007 10:00:29 +0000 http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317020 Ya akhi Lounsbury, Tell me about it. A few years ago I was having dinner in Rabat with a bunch of Moroccans including the historian Halima Ferhat, who was working on book on the history of Middle Eastern culinary traditions. We talked about Egypt's complete lack of decent "high cuisine" and could not find an explanation for it in a region that has tons of nice foods, notably from the Ottomans. I still lean towards a theory based on the social divide between foreign (Turkish) aristocrats and a mostly poor peasant local population. Still love fuul bil bei wa zeit harr in the morning, though. Ya akhi Lounsbury,

Tell me about it. A few years ago I was having dinner in Rabat with a bunch of Moroccans including the historian Halima Ferhat, who was working on book on the history of Middle Eastern culinary traditions. We talked about Egypt’s complete lack of decent “high cuisine” and could not find an explanation for it in a region that has tons of nice foods, notably from the Ottomans. I still lean towards a theory based on the social divide between foreign (Turkish) aristocrats and a mostly poor peasant local population.

Still love fuul bil bei wa zeit harr in the morning, though.

]]> By: issandr http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317015 issandr Sun, 04 Feb 2007 09:10:56 +0000 http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-317015 I've heard that some people mix the hash in their honey. Or the pollen of the plant actually. I don't know about the availability of this stuff in the US because the really good stuff is not really produced industrially, it probably doesn't meet US or EU health standards. But big expensive cities will probably have ethnic food stores that will have something. I’ve heard that some people mix the hash in their honey. Or the pollen of the plant actually.

I don’t know about the availability of this stuff in the US because the really good stuff is not really produced industrially, it probably doesn’t meet US or EU health standards. But big expensive cities will probably have ethnic food stores that will have something.

]]> By: bee to the honeycomb http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-316995 bee to the honeycomb Sat, 03 Feb 2007 22:01:34 +0000 http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-316995 Dude, after some Moroccan hash everything is psychedelic, even if you think that Moroccan Sufism isn't so "by nature." (Vincent Crapanzano would beg to differ, I believe) More importantly, is any of this fabulous Moroccan honey exported to the US? Any brands that you guys recommend? Dude, after some Moroccan hash everything is psychedelic, even if you think that Moroccan Sufism isn’t so “by nature.” (Vincent Crapanzano would beg to differ, I believe)

More importantly, is any of this fabulous Moroccan honey exported to the US? Any brands that you guys recommend?

]]> By: The Lounsbury http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-316991 The Lounsbury Sat, 03 Feb 2007 20:45:01 +0000 http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-316991 Mate, any food is better than Egyptian. Oddly I never cared for the honey. Sufism in Morocco, by the way, re Seneferu, isn't terribly psychedlic by nature. Mate, any food is better than Egyptian.

Oddly I never cared for the honey.

Sufism in Morocco, by the way, re Seneferu, isn’t terribly psychedlic by nature.

]]> By: zazou http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-316980 zazou Sat, 03 Feb 2007 17:01:02 +0000 http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-316980 The honey is the best! And you know what else I miss? The clementines. I would buy them by the kilo... The honey is the best! And you know what else I miss? The clementines. I would buy them by the kilo…

]]> By: Seneferu http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-316970 Seneferu Sat, 03 Feb 2007 15:16:50 +0000 http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-316970 That picture looks very psycadelic doesn't it?:-) The association of the subject with Sufism is manifested, you can say. That picture looks very psycadelic doesn’t it?:-) The association of the subject with Sufism is manifested, you can say.

]]> By: SP http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-316956 SP Sat, 03 Feb 2007 10:49:53 +0000 http://arabist.net/archives/2007/02/03/hmmmm-moroccan-honey/#comment-316956 A pox on you and all these travel writers who talk about inaccessible yummies. A pox on you and all these travel writers who talk about inaccessible yummies.

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