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	<title>Comments on: Lewis, Ajami launch anti-MESA</title>
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	<link>http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/</link>
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	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Abu Tabakh</title>
		<link>http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390627</link>
		<dc:creator>Abu Tabakh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 15:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390627</guid>
		<description>SP, I am glad we cleared that up.  I agree with you 100 percent.  It's not enough that people have been trained in traditional academic departments, they must demonstrate that this training conditions the stuff they write.  I am also amazed at the lack of productivity on the part of some of the most influential thnk-tankers.  

Another part of the problem is the different professional expectations in each realm. As you know, given that you have straddled both worlds, what is important for think tankers (an oped in the Washington Post, a piece in Foreign affairs, and a book contract with Random House) means little in the academic world.  On the flip side, that killer theoretical article in APSR is met with a yawn from the policy community.  

There are people out there who have done a good job at straddling both worlds, but it is difficult given these widely varying professional expectations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SP, I am glad we cleared that up.  I agree with you 100 percent.  It&#8217;s not enough that people have been trained in traditional academic departments, they must demonstrate that this training conditions the stuff they write.  I am also amazed at the lack of productivity on the part of some of the most influential thnk-tankers.  </p>
<p>Another part of the problem is the different professional expectations in each realm. As you know, given that you have straddled both worlds, what is important for think tankers (an oped in the Washington Post, a piece in Foreign affairs, and a book contract with Random House) means little in the academic world.  On the flip side, that killer theoretical article in APSR is met with a yawn from the policy community.  </p>
<p>There are people out there who have done a good job at straddling both worlds, but it is difficult given these widely varying professional expectations.</p>
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		<title>By: SP</title>
		<link>http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390626</link>
		<dc:creator>SP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 15:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390626</guid>
		<description>Abu Tabakh, I've spent a bit of time in both worlds and admire those who can straddle them and do good research, like some of the people at CEIP, ICG, and to some extent CSIS and Brookings. Do read carefully: I said "a lot of" think tanks and not "think tanks by definition." There's an awful lot of name-dropping and posturing and compiling received wisdom/news reports and restating of party lines going on in many think-tanks on matters related to the Middle East, particularly on the conservative side. They still serve a purpose, but their research is obviously going to be driven more by political than by academic needs (or trends). And it's guys who haven't published anything worthwhile in decades, whose work is primarily political, who now want to play the part of the misunderstood, sidelined "real" scholars marching to liberate Middle East studies from the tyranny of lefty Arabists and take it to a new independent dawn?

The point of this post is that the new association wishes to be taken seriously as an ACADEMIC counterweight to MESA. We know very well that its sponsors are influential in the policy world, and good or bad, that's frankly just a side effect of American politics. The policy vs academic debate is probably not one that can be resolved, but just as policy people are right to push academics to make their work more relevant to the real world, academics are right to stand up for real research and for their own credentialling mechanisms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abu Tabakh, I&#8217;ve spent a bit of time in both worlds and admire those who can straddle them and do good research, like some of the people at CEIP, ICG, and to some extent CSIS and Brookings. Do read carefully: I said &#8220;a lot of&#8221; think tanks and not &#8220;think tanks by definition.&#8221; There&#8217;s an awful lot of name-dropping and posturing and compiling received wisdom/news reports and restating of party lines going on in many think-tanks on matters related to the Middle East, particularly on the conservative side. They still serve a purpose, but their research is obviously going to be driven more by political than by academic needs (or trends). And it&#8217;s guys who haven&#8217;t published anything worthwhile in decades, whose work is primarily political, who now want to play the part of the misunderstood, sidelined &#8220;real&#8221; scholars marching to liberate Middle East studies from the tyranny of lefty Arabists and take it to a new independent dawn?</p>
<p>The point of this post is that the new association wishes to be taken seriously as an ACADEMIC counterweight to MESA. We know very well that its sponsors are influential in the policy world, and good or bad, that&#8217;s frankly just a side effect of American politics. The policy vs academic debate is probably not one that can be resolved, but just as policy people are right to push academics to make their work more relevant to the real world, academics are right to stand up for real research and for their own credentialling mechanisms.</p>
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		<title>By: Abu Tabakh</title>
		<link>http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390625</link>
		<dc:creator>Abu Tabakh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 14:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390625</guid>
		<description>Isn't it sad that people in the field are too busy fighting ideological battles rather than getting down to the had work of understanding the Middle East?  It's too bad because there is a lot to be done.

I suspect that SP is an academic (or in training tobe one).  I take issue with his/her claim (not supported by the evidence) that those who work at think-tanks are politicized hacks who speak in pseudo-academic language.  Many of the people who work at organizations like Brookings, CFR, CSIS, and the Carnegie Endowment have the same training as folks in traditional academic departments, have spent long stretches of time overseas, and have a good dela of language training.  For one reason or another (family? finances? interest in policy?), they have decided to take a different path.

Traditional academics tend to bemoan the fact that they are not influential.  Their voices should be heard more often, but they have got to stop insulting the people who are influential.  It's no way to get a seat at the table.

By the way, I hear Juan Cole has been doing quite a bit of consulting at CIA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t it sad that people in the field are too busy fighting ideological battles rather than getting down to the had work of understanding the Middle East?  It&#8217;s too bad because there is a lot to be done.</p>
<p>I suspect that SP is an academic (or in training tobe one).  I take issue with his/her claim (not supported by the evidence) that those who work at think-tanks are politicized hacks who speak in pseudo-academic language.  Many of the people who work at organizations like Brookings, CFR, CSIS, and the Carnegie Endowment have the same training as folks in traditional academic departments, have spent long stretches of time overseas, and have a good dela of language training.  For one reason or another (family? finances? interest in policy?), they have decided to take a different path.</p>
<p>Traditional academics tend to bemoan the fact that they are not influential.  Their voices should be heard more often, but they have got to stop insulting the people who are influential.  It&#8217;s no way to get a seat at the table.</p>
<p>By the way, I hear Juan Cole has been doing quite a bit of consulting at CIA.</p>
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		<title>By: arabist</title>
		<link>http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390624</link>
		<dc:creator>arabist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 13:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390624</guid>
		<description>Dear Bill b,

Re-reading the passage I quoted I see your point, but the way in which Lewis wrote it is ambiguous at best since he does not refer to Nazism or Bolshevism as perversions. It sounds more to me like he's saying Nazism and Bolshevism were the first and second perversions, and then Islam the third. But I agree there is some margin for interpretation there. Still, poor choice of words. With your meaning, Islamism would have been just as a good word, since many forms of Islamisms are generally thought of as quite acceptable (e.g. AKP in Turkey, etc., although Lewis might differ on this point.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Bill b,</p>
<p>Re-reading the passage I quoted I see your point, but the way in which Lewis wrote it is ambiguous at best since he does not refer to Nazism or Bolshevism as perversions. It sounds more to me like he&#8217;s saying Nazism and Bolshevism were the first and second perversions, and then Islam the third. But I agree there is some margin for interpretation there. Still, poor choice of words. With your meaning, Islamism would have been just as a good word, since many forms of Islamisms are generally thought of as quite acceptable (e.g. AKP in Turkey, etc., although Lewis might differ on this point.)</p>
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		<title>By: bill b</title>
		<link>http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390623</link>
		<dc:creator>bill b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 10:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390623</guid>
		<description>I am no supporter of Bernard Lewis, far from it, but I would encourage you to read what he actually says before castigating him for demonising "Islam'' in its entirety. Lewis was referring to a ''perversion'' of Islam. Now if you had picked up that point and had then gone on to argue that this ''perversion'' is a phenomenon which is not remotely comparable to the threats of Nazism and Bolshevism and that Lewis is seeing things which are not there, I would have agreed with you. Trouble is you didn't.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am no supporter of Bernard Lewis, far from it, but I would encourage you to read what he actually says before castigating him for demonising &#8220;Islam&#8221; in its entirety. Lewis was referring to a &#8221;perversion&#8221; of Islam. Now if you had picked up that point and had then gone on to argue that this &#8221;perversion&#8221; is a phenomenon which is not remotely comparable to the threats of Nazism and Bolshevism and that Lewis is seeing things which are not there, I would have agreed with you. Trouble is you didn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: SP</title>
		<link>http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390613</link>
		<dc:creator>SP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 15:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390613</guid>
		<description>EH, you have a point, though it's not like Ajami and Lewis and Kramer and Pipes and their sympathizers aren't out there already countering what the Beinins and Coles are saying. Will reporters really care if the usual Campus Watch suspects now have a different institutional name behind them? 

MESA does very little that's overtly political, perhaps its academic freedom initiative is the one big statement in the past few years, so they'll have to be contested on the academic rather than political plane, which I'm not sure the 'cons are so good at. If these guys want to be taken at all seriously as a new institutional counterweight they're going to have to show membership.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EH, you have a point, though it&#8217;s not like Ajami and Lewis and Kramer and Pipes and their sympathizers aren&#8217;t out there already countering what the Beinins and Coles are saying. Will reporters really care if the usual Campus Watch suspects now have a different institutional name behind them? </p>
<p>MESA does very little that&#8217;s overtly political, perhaps its academic freedom initiative is the one big statement in the past few years, so they&#8217;ll have to be contested on the academic rather than political plane, which I&#8217;m not sure the &#8216;cons are so good at. If these guys want to be taken at all seriously as a new institutional counterweight they&#8217;re going to have to show membership.</p>
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		<title>By: E.H.</title>
		<link>http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390612</link>
		<dc:creator>E.H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 15:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390612</guid>
		<description>I think its important not to underestimate the importance of institution building. While they may be dismissed as kooks and hacks by those who know, merely by creating a new institution with a formal, nice, objective name like ASMEA they are going to be able to contribute greatly to the muddying of the waters and the perpetual efforts of the right to make fairly agreed-upon academic matters "controversial." Their audience isn't going to be other Middle East scholars--they don't care if noone else joins their club. The point is that reporters, and through reporters, the general public, are going to get the Joel Beinins and Juan Coles of the world "balanced" by ASMEA from now on.

To the detriment of everyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think its important not to underestimate the importance of institution building. While they may be dismissed as kooks and hacks by those who know, merely by creating a new institution with a formal, nice, objective name like ASMEA they are going to be able to contribute greatly to the muddying of the waters and the perpetual efforts of the right to make fairly agreed-upon academic matters &#8220;controversial.&#8221; Their audience isn&#8217;t going to be other Middle East scholars&#8211;they don&#8217;t care if noone else joins their club. The point is that reporters, and through reporters, the general public, are going to get the Joel Beinins and Juan Coles of the world &#8220;balanced&#8221; by ASMEA from now on.</p>
<p>To the detriment of everyone.</p>
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		<title>By: Nadia</title>
		<link>http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390611</link>
		<dc:creator>Nadia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 13:57:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390611</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Asked why he didnâ€™t try to add his perspective to the existing group, he said that would be, â€œfor lack of a better word, apartheid,â€ &lt;/i&gt;

Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Asked why he didnâ€™t try to add his perspective to the existing group, he said that would be, â€œfor lack of a better word, apartheid,â€ </i></p>
<p>Christ.</p>
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		<title>By: SP</title>
		<link>http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390610</link>
		<dc:creator>SP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 13:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390610</guid>
		<description>I don't care if MEQ has undeserved political influence. Or even if this new anti-MESA becomes the centre of new neoconnish Middle East studies organising. There will always be a demand for those who say politically convenient things in superficially scholarly language. That's what a lot of think-tanks are for. Just so long as they don't kid themselves that their primary market is academic, rather than political.

And as for the academics who sign on to this association, they'll probably still have to go to MESA or AAA or APSA to get actual academic jobs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t care if MEQ has undeserved political influence. Or even if this new anti-MESA becomes the centre of new neoconnish Middle East studies organising. There will always be a demand for those who say politically convenient things in superficially scholarly language. That&#8217;s what a lot of think-tanks are for. Just so long as they don&#8217;t kid themselves that their primary market is academic, rather than political.</p>
<p>And as for the academics who sign on to this association, they&#8217;ll probably still have to go to MESA or AAA or APSA to get actual academic jobs.</p>
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		<title>By: arabist</title>
		<link>http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390609</link>
		<dc:creator>arabist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 13:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390609</guid>
		<description>Well put, SP. I had wanted to put in a paragraph about how if they were serious scholars and unhappy with the way MESA was run they could have joined it, stood for elections in its bodies, etc. Instead they're creating their own clubhouse.

One thing: it's easy for academics to dismiss MEQ on scholarly grounds, but it unfortunately has a political influence way beyond its puny intellectual calibre. As do many politicized think tanks (in some cases glorified lobbies) that policymakers prefer to consult to universities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well put, SP. I had wanted to put in a paragraph about how if they were serious scholars and unhappy with the way MESA was run they could have joined it, stood for elections in its bodies, etc. Instead they&#8217;re creating their own clubhouse.</p>
<p>One thing: it&#8217;s easy for academics to dismiss MEQ on scholarly grounds, but it unfortunately has a political influence way beyond its puny intellectual calibre. As do many politicized think tanks (in some cases glorified lobbies) that policymakers prefer to consult to universities.</p>
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		<title>By: SP</title>
		<link>http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390607</link>
		<dc:creator>SP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 12:22:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://arabist.net/archives/2007/11/06/lewis-ajami-launch-anti-mesa/#comment-390607</guid>
		<description>To call this a counter-MESA is to flatter the small group of mediocre, burned out or pseudo-academics behind this initiative. Academic associations like MESA are not gatherings of experts, but are professional associations, with specific professional functions. Ajami and Lewis haven't published anything peer reviewed in years, and they can call their new association whatever they like but if actual scholars are not willing to sign on in large numbers, they'll be left with an extension of their little Washington salons. 

As for their critique of MESA and Middle East studies in US in the general, they make it sound like it's some sort of a strict disciplined micromanaging union - it's not. It serves a limited functional purpose and brings people together to present papers and hire new PhDs. It does not credential scholars or decide who can or cannot teach Middle East related material in universities - graduate departments giving out PhDs do that. Despite Lewis &#38; co's silly insinuations about MESA funding and fantasies about being independent underdogs, MESA is funded by membership dues too. 

I'm afraid the neocons are going to find themselves in a position of throwing a party that nobody wants to come to. At best this new association might just offer a recruitment shop for a niche market of conservative Middle East scholars but they've already tried that with the Middle East Forum/Middle East Quarterly, and look at the standards of publication and scholarship those represent: http://www.mequarterly.org/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To call this a counter-MESA is to flatter the small group of mediocre, burned out or pseudo-academics behind this initiative. Academic associations like MESA are not gatherings of experts, but are professional associations, with specific professional functions. Ajami and Lewis haven&#8217;t published anything peer reviewed in years, and they can call their new association whatever they like but if actual scholars are not willing to sign on in large numbers, they&#8217;ll be left with an extension of their little Washington salons. </p>
<p>As for their critique of MESA and Middle East studies in US in the general, they make it sound like it&#8217;s some sort of a strict disciplined micromanaging union - it&#8217;s not. It serves a limited functional purpose and brings people together to present papers and hire new PhDs. It does not credential scholars or decide who can or cannot teach Middle East related material in universities - graduate departments giving out PhDs do that. Despite Lewis &amp; co&#8217;s silly insinuations about MESA funding and fantasies about being independent underdogs, MESA is funded by membership dues too. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m afraid the neocons are going to find themselves in a position of throwing a party that nobody wants to come to. At best this new association might just offer a recruitment shop for a niche market of conservative Middle East scholars but they&#8217;ve already tried that with the Middle East Forum/Middle East Quarterly, and look at the standards of publication and scholarship those represent: <a href="http://www.mequarterly.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.mequarterly.org/</a></p>
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